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JohnP
Level 8

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

@dileeps 

The "per app" plan where you can have 2 apps whithin a "business process" is really vague. What does it mean and how is it enforced/policed?

If we have 7-8 apps it's really difficult to know which user needs which app. So either they get a "per app" license which is 10 USD per app or they pay 40 USD to use all apps. On average I think they will need the "per user" license which will increase the cost of our smallest customer from 0 USD to 48.000 USD per year (100 users). Right now they have a E3/E5 license which have zero cost.

wjhepworth
Level: Powered On

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

As clear evidence of this, I already brought this up with my leadership and the decision came down to a) stop PowerApps development, b) investigate other options, c) determine which apps to refactor and which to just retire.  Now, to be fair, we are a company of only 300 employees but laying a $40/app/user/month for just PowerApps.  Then we also pay for the other Microsoft services such as Azure etc.  Had we known these prices to begin with we would have simply done our apps in Node.js / Angular or React.

 

Microsoft is truly hurting themselves with this approach for several reasons.  First, much of PowerApps is still being refined and essential features are still not complete.  Case in point, examine the connectors and see which support delegation (a key enterprise feature).  Only SQL Server is a credibly complete connector -- though does not support triggers -- and certainly shouldn't be considered premium.  All otherconnectors are missing key operands.  Consider also the PDF viewer which is a no-brainer requirement of most business applications.  Even something this critical is still listed as an experimental feature and requires access in a completely unsecure approach (although I and others have finally figured out how to do it securely).  Point is, Microsoft really should understand PowerApps / Flow position and realize these products are still fighting for segment and not dominating.  Ther are alternatives and they are more robust than PowerApps.  Not sure Microsoft is reading the market correctly and my bet is that you are not.  As a Microsoft fan, I hope I am wrong.

NEPatton
Level 8

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019


@wjhepworth wrote:

< the decision came down to a) stop PowerApps development, b) investigate other options >


Solid decision making based on the evidence.  Good leadership.  You guys are not alone.  

JohnP
Level 8

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019


@wjhepworth wrote:

Microsoft is truly hurting themselves with this approach for several reasons.  First, much of PowerApps is still being refined and essential features are still not complete.

Agreed. PowerApps has such potential. I think MS realized it and got greedy.

Highlighted
pulsebeat
Level: Powered On

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

Maybe this should be another thread but....like most (all?) of you, I am forced to leave Powerapps (can't go from $0 to $300,000/year).  So what are the alternatives you are all looking at?    

JohnP
Level 8

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

@pulsebeat 

We're still in denial. Flabbergasted. But clearly we have to look at alternatives down the road during the "grandfather period" which MS "graciously" offers us (terms still to be negotiated, thank you).

 

https://www.mendix.com/resources/gartner-2019-magic-quadrant-for-enterprise-low-code-application-pla...

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

Something that gets to me with this whole thing is that MS (or that part of MS at least) seems to be confusing PaaS and SaaS.

Sometimes, our business is willing to pay 10$/month/user for a fully-featured, top quality, key-in-hand piece of software that solves a non-mission-critical problem. We came accross Sql Database Modeler two weeks ago and it was just the case: It was a bit of unexpected spending, but we felt it was worth our money.

But PowerApps is a platform. You still have to build (and support/maintain) the **bleep** things. ^^ And no matter how talended I am, it's not going to be to the level of a real SaaS offering since, for one, I am not a team of full-time developper dedicated to a subject.

THAT, more than anything, is where I feel PowerApps (Dynamics flavoured) is going wrong : it's a middleware platform asking for a final product pricing scheme. No power user can convince their boss to grant them license money AND spend days building something. "Can't you find something on the market that does more or less what you want" I hear them say (real SaaS approach). "Can't you just do an Excel spreadsheet like we do for everything else?" (real platform approach).

We as professionals have often been the silent, under-the-radar evangilazors of MS solutions, but now we are cut out from our typical usecase and can't help propagate the solution.

The only opportunties left is when corporate buyers and sellers agree on a massive deployment and someone at IT realises "well, now that we're paying for this thing I've never heard about, i guess I need to find some use for it".

Because lets face it : despite its potential, PowerApps is still largely unheard of. For most folks, there are still quite a few steps in that AIDA model before a purchase. Now the whole buttom-up approach is dead, and the top-down one will fail to takeoff without strong community support from power users and consultants.

This is truly a sad and terrible mistake. :disappointed_face:

OneThing
Level 8

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019


@FredericForest wrote:

Something that gets to me with this whole thing is that MS (or that part of MS at least) seems to be confusing PaaS and SaaS.

Sometimes, our business is willing to pay 10$/month/user for a fully-featured, top quality, key-in-hand piece of software that solves a non-mission-critical problem. We came accross Sql Database Modeler two weeks ago and it was just the case: It was a bit of unexpected spending, but we felt it was worth our money.

But PowerApps is a platform. You still have to build (and support/maintain) the **bleep** things. ^^ And no matter how talended I am, it's not going to be to the level of a real SaaS offering since, for one, I am not a team of full-time developper dedicated to a subject.

THAT, more than anything, is where I feel PowerApps (Dynamics flavoured) is going wrong : it's a middleware platform asking for a final product pricing scheme. No power user can convince their boss to grant them license money AND spend days building something. "Can't you find something on the market that does more or less what you want" I hear them say (real SaaS approach). "Can't you just do an Excel spreadsheet like we do for everything else?" (real platform approach).

We as professionals have often been the silent, under-the-radar evangilazors of MS solutions, but now we are cut out from our typical usecase and can't help propagate the solution.

The only opportunties left is when corporate buyers and sellers agree on a massive deployment and someone at IT realises "well, now that we're paying for this thing I've never heard about, i guess I need to find some use for it".

Because lets face it : despite its potential, PowerApps is still largely unheard of. For most folks, there are still quite a few steps in that AIDA model before a purchase. Now the whole buttom-up approach is dead, and the top-down one will fail to takeoff without strong community support from power users and consultants.

This is truly a sad and terrible mistake. :disappointed_face:


I agree wholeheartedly. We use power apps for simple things such as Training booking calendars, HR Campaign Trackers and Photo ID badge creation. For the new licensing costs we can buy a dedicated, more feature rich Service to replace all of our in house built systems and still have enough money left over to have a company day out.

 

Can you imagine if Microsoft decided to licence VB, C or other Visual studio language components the same way? I know you've bought visual studio for all your developers and the hardware to run the apps and created the SQL databases, but now you will need to pay a monthly subscription to use the connection between these servers as well...

I'm more disappointed than anything else tbh, I've campaigned for powerapps use with great initial resistance, and now the company is bought in and starting to see some of the benefits, its being taken away due to crazy licencing costs.

Super User
Super User

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

Hey @PaulD1 ,

Did you hear that there are grandfathering arrangemends for 5 years for existing apps and flows?

Super User
Super User

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

Good comments Fred - I think that the licensing offered really is unfit for large organisations - they are going to have to do a lot better to deal with this audience.

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