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sajarac
Level 8

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

Hi @Pstork1, Many tahnks for all this usefull information. I have a specific question and concern I guess:

 

Everybody in my company has an E3 licence, only me so far has E3+Premium, so at this point I am developing most of the apps conencted with Share point lists. I Have some apps shared with specific people and 3 or 3 shared with the entire organization. I am currently using a premium connector "MS Word Connector". I have no plans to use Azure, Blob, etc. Just keep the things simple.

 

My question is: All this new plans will affect my developments and the people in my organization? or I can continue developing more apps?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Regards.

Dual Super User
Dual Super User

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

@sajarac 

I'm afraid the new licensing will affect you, but you would have needed additional licensing anyway.  The E3 license will cover any development in SharePoint that uses Standard connectors.  But as you mentioned the Word Online connector is premium, so to use that you need a premium license.  Your users would have needed the same premium license to use any app you built with that connector too. The big change is that the premium connector now retails for $40/user instead of $7/user. So it has gotten much more expensive.

 

If you only have one or two apps that use that connector then you might be better off buying the App license for just those apps at $10/user/app.  Of course if you have 4 or more apps that use the connector then its cheaper to get the regular license.

 

Last point to make is that those are retail prices and what your organization pays may be at a significant discount from that.



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DirectorMumbles
Level: Powered On

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

so since this licensing is deterimental to the platform and will clearly kill it outright shortly, what is everyone else moving to?  

WLAS_Almighty
Level: Powered On

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

From someone that have checked and tested almost everything else that is out there...

 

In the Business Application Development paradigm:

Outsystems, AwareIM, Mendix, Caspio, Kintone, AppSheet, QuickBase, Kony, Wavemaker, KissFlow, Zoho Creator, (I can go on and on)...

 

And in the mobile app development sector:

Appery.io, Roadie, AppBuilder, GoodBarber, AppyPie, BiznessApps....

 

I can tell you that Microsoft is not stupid. They did not come up with that price out of a whim and just to anger us. they are still VERY competitive (actually cheaper than most - NOTE: if you stay at $10.00/user/month) when it comes to the competition and they had a strong start.

 

I, myself felt that they had it just right and joined the bandwagon.

 

But, before giving you my humble advice, let me explain where I am coming from:

 

I am an ISV looking to mobilize my 20+ year "heavy" MS-SQL database program developed in C#.NET.

 

I was hoping - since all my clients are Windows based and use Office - to have PowerApps take small, but important blocks of usability and make it prettier and more usable.

 

But after developing for a while, and with the new 2-app limitation, I see that Microsoft cornered me into a un-winnable situation.

 

Currently, PowerApps development requires simple screen and logic design. If you have too much going on (with screen popups, validations, information, etc...) it becomes unyielding, cumbersome, slow, buggy.

 

So, it is not a heavy application design.

 

But it is not a strictly mobile app either. 

 

So, I think where they went wrong is to think that people can do what they have been doing within the 2-app limit. If they removed that limitation, they would be better/cheaper than competition.

 

But to think my users will have to pay $40.00/month to solve basic problems... no. That makes PowerApps a much worse choice than all competitors named above.

 

So, as a business application developer in need of  on-premise, mobile, reporting, RAD tool (to save on paying thousands on a developer that does not quite get what you want), ability to do anything 9including offline and synchronization), PaaS and SaaS, I chose to go with FileMaker Pro.

 

I know, I know, I never thought I would say this. They are Apple for Christ sake!

 

But, for me, they fit the "current" bill perfectly. And although expensive, will be less and much better than PowerApps.

sscarcella
Level 8

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

I have gone back to using BCS.  It is a bit slower but at least I can access my Azure SQL and SQL Server data in my PowerApps now.  Does anyone know how long BCS will be supported?

sscarcella
Level 8

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

I have gone back to using BCS just like I did with InfoPath.  It is a bit slower but at least I can access my Azure SQL and SQL Server data in my PowerApps now.  Does anyone know how long BCS will be supported?  We certainly cannot afford any of the 3rd party products that charge $30 -$40 per user per month or the new PowerApps $40 plan.  We have used SQL Server for over 12 years and it seems outrageous that you pay $$$ for Server and then have to pay $$$$ to access the data using PowerApps.  All our business processes and forms use data from SQL so the $10 plan is not a solution.  Once they cut off BCS access, we will have to invest in the Layer2 Cloud Connector and sync our SQL tables with SharePoint online.  But they need to improve SharePoint list integration with PowerApps before that is a solution for us.

 

tarinalees
Level: Powered On

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

We chose FileMaker as well. @WLAS_Almighty , thanks for your addition to the post, seeing it spelled out by you, and why you also chose FileMaker, makes me feel really good about our choice. Good luck everyone! 

WillPage
Level 8

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

I have a question about the API limits in the new licensing construct. The documentation states that they consider an API call to be (amongst other things) a Flow action. For connections like SharePoint or Exchange Online I can understand that, but what about data operations and variables?

 

What if I have an array of 1000 items and I want to loop through each item and perform a condition within the loop that appends to a string variable or an array variable depending on the value of some attribute within each object in the array. I'm not hitting any APIs doing that, I'm just building a string or an array based on data I already hold.

 

Would each condition and subsequent action within the Yes or No branches of the condition count as an API call each? I would hit the 2000 limit pretty quickly like that.

Dual Super User
Dual Super User

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

We are still waiting to get some usage reports that can be used to track those kinds of things.  They are coming.  In the meantime, two things.

 

1) MS says that the new API limits would affect less than 5% of current customers.  So most users will never have an issue if they maintain current levels

2) Batch actions are treated as a single API. Can't tell you exactly what they mean by Batch but that was the point made.

 

Hopefully there will be more tools and clarity of definition coming soon.



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Super User
Super User

Re: New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019


@Pstork1 wrote:

We are still waiting to get some usage reports that can be used to track those kinds of things.  They are coming.  In the meantime, two things.

 

1) MS says that the new API limits would affect less than 5% of current customers.  So most users will never have an issue if they maintain current levels

2) Batch actions are treated as a single API. Can't tell you exactly what they mean by Batch but that was the point made.

 

Hopefully there will be more tools and clarity of definition coming soon.


Thanks of the info @Pstork1

I think I will wait for the tools and clarity before dismissing my fears over the new API limits. I suspect the majority of current customers are still evaluating and experimenting with Flow or even not/barely using Flow at all, so while only 5% of current customers are affected that could mean quite a high % of current customers who are actively/seriously using Flow will be impacted.

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