cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply
Pstork1
Most Valuable Professional
Most Valuable Professional

New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

If you haven't seen the announcement yet about the Licensing changes that are coming to PowerApps and Flow starting on October 1, 2019 you really need to read the following Blog. This announcement was originally made at Inspire this year, but has undergone a number of significant changes.  Make sure you read this and understand what it means to you and your organization.

https://powerapps.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/new-licensing-options-for-powerapps-and-flow/



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I have answered your question, please mark your post as Solved.
If you like my response, please give it a Thumbs Up.
160 REPLIES 160
sajarac
Kudo Kingpin
Kudo Kingpin

Hi @Pstork1, Many tahnks for all this usefull information. I have a specific question and concern I guess:

 

Everybody in my company has an E3 licence, only me so far has E3+Premium, so at this point I am developing most of the apps conencted with Share point lists. I Have some apps shared with specific people and 3 or 3 shared with the entire organization. I am currently using a premium connector "MS Word Connector". I have no plans to use Azure, Blob, etc. Just keep the things simple.

 

My question is: All this new plans will affect my developments and the people in my organization? or I can continue developing more apps?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Regards.

Pstork1
Most Valuable Professional
Most Valuable Professional

@sajarac 

I'm afraid the new licensing will affect you, but you would have needed additional licensing anyway.  The E3 license will cover any development in SharePoint that uses Standard connectors.  But as you mentioned the Word Online connector is premium, so to use that you need a premium license.  Your users would have needed the same premium license to use any app you built with that connector too. The big change is that the premium connector now retails for $40/user instead of $7/user. So it has gotten much more expensive.

 

If you only have one or two apps that use that connector then you might be better off buying the App license for just those apps at $10/user/app.  Of course if you have 4 or more apps that use the connector then its cheaper to get the regular license.

 

Last point to make is that those are retail prices and what your organization pays may be at a significant discount from that.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I have answered your question, please mark your post as Solved.
If you like my response, please give it a Thumbs Up.

so since this licensing is deterimental to the platform and will clearly kill it outright shortly, what is everyone else moving to?  

From someone that have checked and tested almost everything else that is out there...

 

In the Business Application Development paradigm:

Outsystems, AwareIM, Mendix, Caspio, Kintone, AppSheet, QuickBase, Kony, Wavemaker, KissFlow, Zoho Creator, (I can go on and on)...

 

And in the mobile app development sector:

Appery.io, Roadie, AppBuilder, GoodBarber, AppyPie, BiznessApps....

 

I can tell you that Microsoft is not stupid. They did not come up with that price out of a whim and just to anger us. they are still VERY competitive (actually cheaper than most - NOTE: if you stay at $10.00/user/month) when it comes to the competition and they had a strong start.

 

I, myself felt that they had it just right and joined the bandwagon.

 

But, before giving you my humble advice, let me explain where I am coming from:

 

I am an ISV looking to mobilize my 20+ year "heavy" MS-SQL database program developed in C#.NET.

 

I was hoping - since all my clients are Windows based and use Office - to have PowerApps take small, but important blocks of usability and make it prettier and more usable.

 

But after developing for a while, and with the new 2-app limitation, I see that Microsoft cornered me into a un-winnable situation.

 

Currently, PowerApps development requires simple screen and logic design. If you have too much going on (with screen popups, validations, information, etc...) it becomes unyielding, cumbersome, slow, buggy.

 

So, it is not a heavy application design.

 

But it is not a strictly mobile app either. 

 

So, I think where they went wrong is to think that people can do what they have been doing within the 2-app limit. If they removed that limitation, they would be better/cheaper than competition.

 

But to think my users will have to pay $40.00/month to solve basic problems... no. That makes PowerApps a much worse choice than all competitors named above.

 

So, as a business application developer in need of  on-premise, mobile, reporting, RAD tool (to save on paying thousands on a developer that does not quite get what you want), ability to do anything 9including offline and synchronization), PaaS and SaaS, I chose to go with FileMaker Pro.

 

I know, I know, I never thought I would say this. They are Apple for Christ sake!

 

But, for me, they fit the "current" bill perfectly. And although expensive, will be less and much better than PowerApps.

sscarcella
Kudo Commander
Kudo Commander

I have gone back to using BCS.  It is a bit slower but at least I can access my Azure SQL and SQL Server data in my PowerApps now.  Does anyone know how long BCS will be supported?

sscarcella
Kudo Commander
Kudo Commander

I have gone back to using BCS just like I did with InfoPath.  It is a bit slower but at least I can access my Azure SQL and SQL Server data in my PowerApps now.  Does anyone know how long BCS will be supported?  We certainly cannot afford any of the 3rd party products that charge $30 -$40 per user per month or the new PowerApps $40 plan.  We have used SQL Server for over 12 years and it seems outrageous that you pay $$$ for Server and then have to pay $$$$ to access the data using PowerApps.  All our business processes and forms use data from SQL so the $10 plan is not a solution.  Once they cut off BCS access, we will have to invest in the Layer2 Cloud Connector and sync our SQL tables with SharePoint online.  But they need to improve SharePoint list integration with PowerApps before that is a solution for us.

 

We chose FileMaker as well. @WLAS_Almighty , thanks for your addition to the post, seeing it spelled out by you, and why you also chose FileMaker, makes me feel really good about our choice. Good luck everyone! 

WillPage
Memorable Member
Memorable Member

I have a question about the API limits in the new licensing construct. The documentation states that they consider an API call to be (amongst other things) a Flow action. For connections like SharePoint or Exchange Online I can understand that, but what about data operations and variables?

 

What if I have an array of 1000 items and I want to loop through each item and perform a condition within the loop that appends to a string variable or an array variable depending on the value of some attribute within each object in the array. I'm not hitting any APIs doing that, I'm just building a string or an array based on data I already hold.

 

Would each condition and subsequent action within the Yes or No branches of the condition count as an API call each? I would hit the 2000 limit pretty quickly like that.

Pstork1
Most Valuable Professional
Most Valuable Professional

We are still waiting to get some usage reports that can be used to track those kinds of things.  They are coming.  In the meantime, two things.

 

1) MS says that the new API limits would affect less than 5% of current customers.  So most users will never have an issue if they maintain current levels

2) Batch actions are treated as a single API. Can't tell you exactly what they mean by Batch but that was the point made.

 

Hopefully there will be more tools and clarity of definition coming soon.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I have answered your question, please mark your post as Solved.
If you like my response, please give it a Thumbs Up.
PaulD1
Community Champion
Community Champion


@Pstork1 wrote:

We are still waiting to get some usage reports that can be used to track those kinds of things.  They are coming.  In the meantime, two things.

 

1) MS says that the new API limits would affect less than 5% of current customers.  So most users will never have an issue if they maintain current levels

2) Batch actions are treated as a single API. Can't tell you exactly what they mean by Batch but that was the point made.

 

Hopefully there will be more tools and clarity of definition coming soon.


Thanks of the info @Pstork1

I think I will wait for the tools and clarity before dismissing my fears over the new API limits. I suspect the majority of current customers are still evaluating and experimenting with Flow or even not/barely using Flow at all, so while only 5% of current customers are affected that could mean quite a high % of current customers who are actively/seriously using Flow will be impacted.

The new licensing model has also really put a stop to current projects developed in our +100 person department, in a +40.000 person company where we where a pilot project. Very unfortunate.

What?  Your company is not willing to pay nearly $20,000,000/year so that people can use "citizen developer" apps to do things like, you know, sign up for courses and track whose turn it is to bring in the Friday donuts? What's wrong with your leadership!   

JohnP
Kudo Kingpin
Kudo Kingpin

The new pricing model does not scale well. Organizations may have thousands of *potential* or *occasional* users for any given app. Forcing licenses on all of them is not fair. The total silence from MS is not very surprising, but still disturbing.

WillEdz
Advocate I
Advocate I

This is starting to feel a bit like the moment when Microsoft sent out the message that Access Web Apps was being shut down. That caused a major wobble. The answer from Microsoft was rebuild all your stuff in PowerApps its great and free.... here we are a relatively short while later and the message is "Thanks for rebuilding everything (at your cost) - but since you have its time to pay again - but this time we are really going to make you pay - and we mean pay allot each month"

 

The questions and raised eyebrows that are being fired towards me are not good. 

 

Label1.Text="Your"

 

Label2.Text="Fired"

 

Text(Label1.Text, " ", Label2.Text)

I prefer the string concatenation operator.

 

Set(varFirstPart, "I'm screwed.  Good time to");

Set(varSecondPart, "retire")

 

varFirstPart & " " & varSecondPart

Considering the utter lack of response from MS on some very genuine concern from the community (not even a "sorry guys but that's that") I'd say there's still some issue with the Communication connector :winking_face:

 

Notify("Hello world ?", NotificationType.Warning);

WillEdz
Advocate I
Advocate I

Careful you might need to upgrade to a $40 a month per user if you use variables :smirking_face:

robinlotz
Frequent Visitor

Office 365 E5 (Skype (with Phone call );Teams;Power BI Pro;Word;
Excel;Sharepoint;Outlook;OneDrive;PowerPoint;OneNote...) = 35$/user/month

Power Apps "Unlimited" (with ur own dev team / application maintenance team + licensing for ur cloud data base on AZURE ofc ) = 40$/user/month

Just saying...
The pricing before the update of the premium SQL connector was ok ...

Just saw the MS Ignite presentation on Power Apps licensing. Boy that made me sad... 

Once there was beautiful platform full of potential. Then one day, the Licensing fairy came and cast a wicked spell on her...

The end.

 

I learned of this via pop-up when a user was trying to start an app. So my questions are

1) Is it apps created before Oct 1 that get the grace period or published before Oct 1?

2) Can we safely ignore this pop-up or is it indicative the app will be rendered useless soon?

 

Just my 2 cents.

I've been a contributor on the forums and helped others, spent many hours developing my own skills on this product. We already pay an Office365 subscription. When "on-premises" sources were deemed premium, I thought "well, it kinda makes sense...payback for developing the gateway, etc.". I convinced them to get Azure SQL by subscription, made sense, an easy sell.  Now this feels like the rug has been pulled from under us. So we pay for Office365, we pay for Azure SQL, and you want to charge more to bridge the gap? Is Microsoft trying to kill this product?  I'll be moving away from PowerApps if nothing changes, simply for the fact I can't provide solutions without the worry somewhere down the road taxes will be added to it. I'm a developer, not a salesman.

 

Helpful resources

Announcements

Community will be READ ONLY July 16th, 5p PDT -July 22nd

Dear Community Members,   We'd like to let you know of an upcoming change to the community platform: starting July 16th, the platform will transition to a READ ONLY mode until July 22nd.   During this period, members will not be able to Kudo, Comment, or Reply to any posts.   On July 22nd, please be on the lookout for a message sent to the email address registered on your community profile. This email is crucial as it will contain your unique code and link to register for the new platform encompassing all of the communities.   What to Expect in the New Community: A more unified experience where all products, including Power Apps, Power Automate, Copilot Studio, and Power Pages, will be accessible from one community.Community Blogs that you can syndicate and link to for automatic updates. We appreciate your understanding and cooperation during this transition. Stay tuned for the exciting new features and a seamless community experience ahead!

Summer of Solutions | Week 4 Results | Winners will be posted on July 24th

We are excited to announce the Summer of Solutions Challenge!    This challenge is kicking off on Monday, June 17th and will run for (4) weeks.  The challenge is open to all Power Platform (Power Apps, Power Automate, Copilot Studio & Power Pages) community members. We invite you to participate in a quest to provide solutions to as many questions as you can. Answers can be provided in all the communities.    Entry Period: This Challenge will consist of four weekly Entry Periods as follows (each an “Entry Period”)   - 12:00 a.m. PT on June 17, 2024 – 11:59 p.m. PT on June 23, 2024 - 12:00 a.m. PT on June 24, 2024 – 11:59 p.m. PT on June 30, 2024 - 12:00 a.m. PT on July 1, 2024 – 11:59 p.m. PT on July 7, 2024 - 12:00 a.m. PT on July 8, 2024 – 11:59 p.m. PT on July 14, 2024   Entries will be eligible for the Entry Period in which they are received and will not carryover to subsequent weekly entry periods.  You must enter into each weekly Entry Period separately.   How to Enter: We invite you to participate in a quest to provide "Accepted Solutions" to as many questions as you can. Answers can be provided in all the communities. Users must provide a solution which can be an “Accepted Solution” in the Forums in all of the communities and there are no limits to the number of “Accepted Solutions” that a member can provide for entries in this challenge, but each entry must be substantially unique and different.    Winner Selection and Prizes: At the end of each week, we will list the top ten (10) Community users which will consist of: 5 Community Members & 5 Super Users and they will advance to the final drawing. We will post each week in the News & Announcements the top 10 Solution providers.  At the end of the challenge, we will add all of the top 10 weekly names and enter them into a random drawing.  Then we will randomly select ten (10) winners (5 Community Members & 5 Super Users) from among all eligible entrants received across all weekly Entry Periods to receive the prize listed below. If a winner declines, we will draw again at random for the next winner.  A user will only be able to win once overall. If they are drawn multiple times, another user will be drawn at random.  Individuals will be contacted before the announcement with the opportunity to claim or deny the prize.  Once all of the winners have been notified, we will post in the News & Announcements of each community with the list of winners.   Each winner will receive one (1) Pass to the Power Platform Conference in Las Vegas, Sep. 18-20, 2024 ($1800 value). NOTE: Prize is for conference attendance only and any other costs such as airfare, lodging, transportation, and food are the sole responsibility of the winner. Tickets are not transferable to any other party or to next year’s event.   ** PLEASE SEE THE ATTACHED RULES for this CHALLENGE**   Week 1 Results: Congratulations to the Week 1 qualifiers, you are being entered in the random drawing that will take place at the end of the challenge.   Community MembersNumber SolutionsSuper UsersNumber Solutions Deenuji 9 @NathanAlvares24  17 @Anil_g  7 @ManishSolanki  13 @eetuRobo  5 @David_MA  10 @VishnuReddy1997  5 @SpongYe  9JhonatanOB19932 (tie) @Nived_Nambiar  8 @maltie  2 (tie)   @PA-Noob  2 (tie)   @LukeMcG  2 (tie)   @tgut03  2 (tie)       Week 2 Results: Congratulations to the Week 2 qualifiers, you are being entered in the random drawing that will take place at the end of the challenge. Week 2: Community MembersSolutionsSuper UsersSolutionsPower Automate  @Deenuji  12@ManishSolanki 19 @Anil_g  10 @NathanAlvares24  17 @VishnuReddy1997  6 @Expiscornovus  10 @Tjan  5 @Nived_Nambiar  10 @eetuRobo  3 @SudeepGhatakNZ 8     Week 3 Results: Congratulations to the Week 3 qualifiers, you are being entered in the random drawing that will take place at the end of the challenge. Week 3:Community MembersSolutionsSuper UsersSolutionsPower Automate Deenuji32ManishSolanki55VishnuReddy199724NathanAlvares2444Anil_g22SudeepGhatakNZ40eetuRobo18Nived_Nambiar28Tjan8David_MA22   Week 4 Results: Congratulations to the Week 4 qualifiers, you are being entered in the random drawing that will take place at the end of the challenge. Week 4:Community MembersSolutionsSuper UsersSolutionsPower Automate Deenuji11FLMike31Sayan11ManishSolanki16VishnuReddy199710creativeopinion14Akshansh-Sharma3SudeepGhatakNZ7claudiovc2CFernandes5 misc2Nived_Nambiar5 Usernametwice232rzaneti5 eetuRobo2   Anil_g2   SharonS2  

Check Out | 2024 Release Wave 2 Plans for Microsoft Dynamics 365 and Microsoft Power Platform

On July 16, 2024, we published the 2024 release wave 2 plans for Microsoft Dynamics 365 and Microsoft Power Platform. These plans are a compilation of the new capabilities planned to be released between October 2024 to March 2025. This release introduces a wealth of new features designed to enhance customer understanding and improve overall user experience, showcasing our dedication to driving digital transformation for our customers and partners.    The upcoming wave is centered around utilizing advanced AI and Microsoft Copilot technologies to enhance user productivity and streamline operations across diverse business applications. These enhancements include intelligent automation, AI-powered insights, and immersive user experiences that are designed to break down barriers between data, insights, and individuals. Watch a summary of the release highlights.    Discover the latest features that empower organizations to operate more efficiently and adaptively. From AI-driven sales insights and customer service enhancements to predictive analytics in supply chain management and autonomous financial processes, the new capabilities enable businesses to proactively address challenges and capitalize on opportunities.    

Updates to Transitions in the Power Platform Communities

We're embarking on a journey to enhance your experience by transitioning to a new community platform. Our team has been diligently working to create a fresh community site, leveraging the very Dynamics 365 and Power Platform tools our community advocates for.  We started this journey with transitioning Copilot Studio forums and blogs in June. The move marks the beginning of a new chapter, and we're eager for you to be a part of it. The rest of the Power Platform product sites will be moving over this summer.   Stay tuned for more updates as we get closer to the launch. We can't wait to welcome you to our new community space, designed with you in mind. Let's connect, learn, and grow together.   Here's to new beginnings and endless possibilities!   If you have any questions, observations or concerns throughout this process please go to https://aka.ms/PPCommSupport.   To stay up to date on the latest details of this migration and other important Community updates subscribe to our News and Announcements forums: Copilot Studio, Power Apps, Power Automate, Power Pages

Users online (1,880)