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New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

If you haven't seen the announcement yet about the Licensing changes that are coming to PowerApps and Flow starting on October 1, 2019 you really need to read the following Blog. This announcement was originally made at Inspire this year, but has undergone a number of significant changes.  Make sure you read this and understand what it means to you and your organization.

https://powerapps.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/new-licensing-options-for-powerapps-and-flow/

Comments

More info at this link:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/power-platform/admin/powerapps-flow-licensing-faq

A key concern for our team is Azure SQL DB (among many other connectors) being reclassified as premium. We standardised on using Azure SQL DB as the datasource for our (PowerApps and Flow based) Apps as we consider it more capable (Views, Stored Procedures, better support for delegation) and easier to scale than SharePoint Lists or CDS (and most of our customers don't have CDS anyway).

For our clients who are already paying for PowerApps (via O365 license) and Azure SQL DB, it is going to be hard to explain why they now have to pay extra to continue using those services together in their existing apps.

I agree with you and voiced the same concern to the product team.  In case you didn't notice it,  one of the recent changes is that MS is providing a five year grace period for any apps that are already using Azure SQL connections until 2024.  YOu will not be required to buy a premium license to continue using SQL for apps that are already in production before Oct. 1.  So your clients won't lose their existing investment. But its my understanding that any new apps being developed after October 1 with SQL will require a premium license. That helps, but it still isn't greate news.

Thanks @Pstork1, that's a really useful piece of information.

 

At least our existing projects/clients have a grace period - that does help reduce the pain.

Do you know if the grace period applies to all the connectors being moved into Premium? Particularly interested in the Azure Blob Storage connector as we have been standardising on using that for images, signatures and files (performs well, is was cheap, easy to use directly from PowerApps without the need for interemediary Flows).

Hi @Pstork1!

 

Do you have any documentation about the five year grace period you are talking about?

I am using the SQL conenctor everywhere...

I have seen information about the grace period in the service update email that my customer got.

 

It basically says that apps that are already using connectors that will move from standard to premium and is published before 1 october will have an exempt until 1 october 2024.

 

However, I would like to know what happens in the following sceanrious (if that will break the 2024-exempt)

- An app is moved from one environment to another

- An app is updated my using import powerapp functionality

- When new users are added after 1 october 2019

- If, for some reason, the app need to be "reinstalled" or "recreated"

 

I hope we can get som clarification on the above matters.

What will happen to PowerApps and Flows that don't use a P1 or P2 license? Does the ability to use the free plans of PowerApp and Flow still exist if you are not using any premium connectors or does every user or end user need one of the new licenses?

In previous posts I read about a minimum of 30 licenses (per app plan). I can't find it in de FAQ. Is this still the minimum purchase?

I'm asking this because a lot of our relations are small-business and doesnt have 30 users and a single app...

To the best of my knowledge the grace period only applies to the SQL connector moving to premium and not all the Azure connectors.

I can't point you at a publicly available blog post at this point.  MS is still working on that.  But if you have your global admin check through the messages in the Office 365 message center it is covered in one of those that went out last week.

  • As I understand it, exporting/importing an app between environments will drop the exception for the connector, because the import will create a new instance of the connector so its not existing as of October 1 anymore.
  • Sharing with new users should not affect the grace period
  • For a re-installation I assume you need to get MS support involved.  You might also be able to get them to apply the grace period for pre-existing apps that are migrated to a new environment.

 

The "Free" license still exists.  But it is now refered to as a "Seeded" plan, ie it comes with the Office 365 or Dynamics 365 license.  The Office license plan will basically be unchanged, except for the re-classification of SQL and Azure connectors as premium.  If you've used PowerApps and Flow to build applciations that extend SharePoint lists or Excel spreadsheets in OneDrive you won't really notice a change. 

 

If you had a P1 license you will now need to buy a standalone plan license, which is more expensive.  

 

If you had a P2 license the standalone plan is essentially equivalent.

The minimum purchases that were announced at Inspire have all pretty much been dropped.

Aah, feels good to see that this topic is finally debated ! It felt is was almost hush-hush for a while.

Don't get me wrong : the Office 365 Power App licence + Azure SQL DB was a deal that was just too good to be true, it needed reajusting. But now the pendulum swung quite violently to the other extreme...

We're extremly affected by these new changes. Like many others, we only use Azure SQL DB as a backend and HTTP Responses to return PROC data (for a variety of reasons we won't debate here). A client has already pulled out of a project days before production (didn't know about the 5 year grace...) and I expect others to soon follow. The client even suggested to switch the project to an Access database. Argh ! Smiley Frustrated

A lot of our current projects revolved around "profesionnalising" artisanal business processes (aka : Excel sheets grown too big for their own good). These scenarios often have a low usage (maybe once a month) but adress a large user-base (50+ users). The P1 licences just cannot work in such a scenario since business sponsors are not willing to pay 6K€/year in licensing fees to replace a single Excel-based process (or 25K€/years for mulitple ones...), no matter how clunky and error prone it is.

Personally, I'm hoping something akin to the daily-login licensing concept for the portal could be extended to the regular canvas apps. Azure has had tremandous success with the Pay-as-you-go formula since it allowed a real "land and expand" strategy. Give the people a taste of what PowerApps can do with cheap, easy to commit to scenarios and they'll remember you when the big lucrative use-cases come around.

 

My two cents anyway 😉

 

ps: anyone know if the grace period also includes the HTTP responses ? Patch() is a handy little tool, but it's not going to cut it for complex business logic over large datasets ^^

@FredericForest  I totally agree. The new pricing is a swing too far the other way. I was disappointed enough that they made the HTTP actions, on-prem data gateway and the single custom connector premium, but it wasn't such a blow that it lost customers.

 

I think they've lost sight a little of what the benefits of the Power platform actually are. By making the Azure Automation connector premium, for example, they've taken away a tool for systems admins to build their own automation and UIs for admin tasks. No systems admin is going to pay for that connector, they'll just find another way to achieve the same thing or just do it the old way. What a wasted opportunity.

 

I also agree about the frequency of use for apps. It's an awful lot of money to pay, some 30% or more on top of the base cost of an Office 365 license (Business Premium it's more than 50%!) just to run a couple of apps occasionally. It makes it a really hard sell, which is such a shame because if it wasn't for Microsoft pricing small business and the more casual customers out of the market, it would be a game changing platform.

 

At least we still have Logic Apps (for now - who knows what devious plans they have for that?) for doing the premium legwork out of band of the PowerApp, if you can sucessfully architect the app to do that.

Thanks for your reply, Paul

I hope i can get some official statement around the grace period - not that i dont trust you 🙂 - but i would like to see something from Microsoft staff on this. Hopefully they wake up!

I have one big app just about to go into prod. It uses the Azure SQL connector. I need to convince my customer that they are safe during the five year exempt period otherwise they will pull out and buy a third party case management system instead.

In my particular case we are talking about approx 2000 users and we are already paying for the SQL Server in Azure and for Office 365 licenses. Also paying for the ability to communicate with SQL doesnt make a single sense to me.

Please, Microsoft staff, spread some ligth over this!

/Magnus

I agree completly. We currently have around 20 small applications wich use azure SQL as a back end. Our costs just now are the 365 Licences and the Azure SQL server. Adding in $40/month/user and our 1600 staff adds $768,000 compared to the £300/year for Azure SQL. 
 
Madness all around and basically stopping us using power apps until we find an alternative back end.
 
@MagnusGöransson Here is the 365 Message Center Post detailing the change and the grace period.
 
Major Update : Announcement
Applies To : All customers
 Licensing updates for Microsoft Flow & PowerApps in Microsoft 365
MC189149
Plan For Change
Published On : 29 August 2019
Effective October 1, 2019, changes will be made to PowerApps and Flow licenses, including those available as part of Office 365 subscriptions and the general purpose PowerApps and Flow plans. The changes are as follows:
    • The SQL, Azure and Dynamics 365 connectors listed below will be reclassified from Standard to Premium. A standalone PowerApps or Flow plan license is required to access all Premium connectors.
      • Azure Application Insights
      • Azure Automation
      • Azure Blob Storage
      • Azure Container
      • Azure Cosmos
      • Azure Data Factory
      • Azure Data Lake
      • Azure DevOps
      • Azure Event Grid
      • Azure Event Grid Publish
      • Azure File Storage
      • Azure IoT Central
      • Azure Kusto
      • Azure Log Analytics
      • Azure Log Analytics Data Collector
      • Azure Queues
      • Azure Resource Manager
      • Azure SQL
      • Azure SQL Data Warehouse
      • Azure Table Sorage
      • Dynamics 365
      • Dynamics 365 Customer Insights
      • Dynamics 365 for Finance & Operations
      • Dynamics 365 Sales Insights
      • Dynamics 365 Business Central
      • Dynamics 365 Business Central (on-premises)
      • Dynamics NAV
      • Event Hubs
      • Service Bus
      • SQL Server

 

    • Two of Flow’s plan-based limits are being removed:

 

      1. 5-minute maximum flow frequency
      2. 2,000 maximum runs per user, per month

Existing user-based limits on API requests will remain in place for the purposes of service assurance, and there is one new daily API request limit being introduced at this time. Go here to learn more about Flow service limits.

How does this affect me?
You are receiving this message because our reporting indicates your organization is using PowerApps or Flow with Office 365 and one or more of the capabilities listed above.

Your tenant will receive a grace period before the connector reclassification goes into effect, until October 1, 2020, or the expiration of your current Office 365 subscription term, whichever is longer. In addition, apps and flows created prior to October 1, 2019 will receive an extended grace period until October 1, 2024 – during this time these qualifying apps and flows will be exempt from Premium connector licensing requirements.

Beginning October 1, 2019 your organization will have the limits on Flow trigger frequency and number of runs removed. However, your organization will continue to maintain service limits comparable to current entitlement until October 1, 2020 or the expiration of your current Office 365 subscription term, whichever is longer.

What do I need to do to prepare for this change?
Your organization will maintain access to existing connectors and comparable service limits until October 1, 2020 or the expiration of your current Office 365 subscription term, whichever is longer. Additionally, apps and flows created prior to October 1, 2019 will be exempt from Premium connector licensing requirements until October 1, 2024.

After that time a standalone PowerApps or Flow plan license will be required to access all Premium connectors, and it may be necessary to add additional capacity based on your organization’s needs. You should assess your current and future usage patterns to determine if additional licensing will be needed.

Please click Additional Information to learn more.
  • I agree on the hush hush nature of the discussion til now.  Unfortunately, many of us who knew about what was coming were covered by an NDA and not allowed to discuss it publicly until now.
  • The SQL 5 year extension will not cover HTTP.  HTTP calls have a grace period in place right now til about the end of this year and that is remaining unchanged.
  • I agree about the negative effects this is going to have on PowerApps and Flow usage.

I'm not arguing in favor of the price changes.  Like many of you I agree they are going to be a real problem.  What a lot of people don't see about this scenario is that the decision to change prices isn't coming from the Office 365 team, its coming from the Dynamics team.  Dyanmics is the product group that owns the Power Platform. Although this is a huge change for people who have the Office 365 seeded license its a much smaller change (financially) for the people using the Dynamics platform. Most Dynamics licenses already covered and will continue to cover premium features. Its the Office licenses that only covered standard. Most Dynamics users are already paying well over $40/user/month for their license, which includes PowerApps and Flow with premium features. Dynamics users are going to see an estimated 5% increase in licensing costs, but that is no where near what Office users will pay if they continue to use Premium features. Office users will still be able to do a lot of great Apps using SharePoint alone.  But it will be nothing like what professional developers have been able to do.

Have your Global admin check the message center in Office 365.  An official notice that included the SQL grace period was posted on Friday.  Your official Office 365 contact should have gotten an email that included it too. The following was in one of the messages sent out:

 

What do I need to do to prepare for this change?
Your organization will maintain access to existing connectors and comparable service limits until October 1, 2020 or the expiration of your current Office 365 subscription term, whichever is longer. Additionally, apps and flows created prior to October 1, 2019 will be exempt from Premium connector licensing requirements until October 1, 2024.

After that time a standalone PowerApps or Flow plan license will be required to access all Premium connectors, and it may be necessary to add additional capacity based on your organization’s needs. You should assess your current and future usage patterns to determine if additional licensing will be needed.

Thanks @Pstork1 for the precisions on the HTTP calls. I'll admit it was not the answer I was hoping for, but at least now I know where I stand (and that's already a good start).

Considering the Office vs Dynamics team, it felt pretty obvious to me as well. It explains the pricing philosophy and the "do-or-die" attitude towards CDS.

I'm not going to get into politics, although MS has been known to suffer from internal politics before ("cough-cough" Power BI vs SQL Server)...

What I will say however is that if they push too much in this direction, PowerApps will become de facto a pure Dynamics 365 extension platform. And that's really coming short of its potential since Dynamics client only represent a fraction of the total market (and not being a Dynamics guy, they are just not my clients). Personally, as a business leader, I was considering dedicating 5-10 consultants to the solution within the next 12-18 months. But now I'm giving myself until Christmas to evaluate if it's a smart business decision or not...

I agree totally.  As a private consultant who has spent the last 18 months ramping up and focusing on PowerApps and Flow it is very disappointing. I think Office 365 users will continue to use it with SharePoint lists, but that is a fraction of what it is capable of.  MS thinks that if they use it there they will recognize the value and buy the standalone license.  Given the price point I think they are completely wrong. But give that its the Dynamics team calling the shots I don't know that they care if they lose the Office 365 customer base.


@Pstork1 wrote:

I agree totally.  As a private consultant who has spent the last 18 months ramping up and focusing on PowerApps and Flow it is very disappointing. I think Office 365 users will continue to use it with SharePoint lists, but that is a fraction of what it is capable of.  MS thinks that if they use it there they will recognize the value and buy the standalone license.  Given the price point I think they are completely wrong. But give that its the Dynamics team calling the shots I don't know that they care if they lose the Office 365 customer base.


Approx 90% of my billable hours this year has been dedicated to the Powerplatform and I have also been working on getting other consultants up to speed on PowerApps, Logic Apps and Flow. Now I really don't know anymore. Beeing stuck in Office 365 services or pay to access services I'm already paying for just doesnt make sense.

An Microsoft E5 license is like $50/user and you get tons of services. Add one service to it and it almost double to price. It's so sad.

However, Microsoft has changed their mind before and hopefully they will do another round of discussions regarding this.

@Pstork1 Thanks for starting this thread.

 

I have several thoughts at the moment about the new licensing model. Two of them I would like to share. It are 2 questions about the "PowerApps per app" plan.

 

Question I

Canvas apps have been positioned for customized tasks and role-based apps and model-driven apps for back-office scenarios. A business solution (called application in the licensing F.A.Q.) I have in mind is build on this concept and contains a few model-driven apps and several canvas apps. The apps are role specific, meaning an employee would normally only need just a few of these apps. This setup is also based on a best practice not to make big apps.

 

The new "PowerApps per app" plan allows for 2 apps and a single portal per application. So how are these 2 apps determined? If this is max. 2 apps per user per business solution, then I think it is ok. If this is max. 2 apps per business solution, then I think, well, 😐

 

Question II

Some business solutions only need to be executed once a year. Enabling a business solution for only one month could be an option.  How will the billing be processed? Example: All apps present on the first of the month will be counted.

 

Thanks!

Rick

1) The per App license is distributed per user. So the max would be 2 apps in a business solution for a user requires on per app license.  Other users could have different apps covered by a per app license. But in general this is primarily designed to be a low cost way to get started at $10 per user for a single business solution (with a couple incorporated apps).  Once a user uses 4 of these it becomes a better deal to buy the regular per user license for unlimited numbers of Apps. Most people will eventually get to that level of engagement.

2) I'm not sure about this one.  But as I understand it there will be a yearly commitment for the licensing. So in your scenario I don't think you could license an app just for a month while its being used. But that's a specific scenario that you should raise with your Microsoft rep for clarification.

I work at a manufacturing facility, and I've been using PowerApps to really change how we do work in my department.  All of my apps go through SQL as I'm connecting to various data sets used by other applications (e.g. Blue Mountain).  I've been active in the forums, and I've really held out hope for PowerApps as a long term solution at my site - but this is killer.  I might be able (MIGHT be able) to swing the money for a single P2 license and a few P1 licenses for my team to continue using the apps I've developed - but I'll never be able to expand my game-changing apps out to other groups (100's of employees).  Why would I continue using a product that isn't expandable (expansion is cost prohibitive = not expandable)?  

 

Someone up above said it best - this makes Powerapps a wasted opportunity.  And others were correct as well - I'm going to have to stop using Powerapps and start making something else on my own.  I'll go back to asp.net and eat the hours it takes to rebuild everything I've made in Powerapps on my own web page if I have to.  At least it's something I can rely on!

 

*feeling very betrayed - drinking wine in T-MINUS 2 hours*

I wonder if the Flow sentiment analysis demo we've seen a milion time is running on this forum. If so, lights must be flashing left and right at the moment. ^^

Applies to all connectors moving from standard to premium category effective Oct 1, 2019
To address SMBs and to support POC/prototyping scenarios, minimum purchase requirements have been eliminated
Note that per app licenses need to be assigned to individual users. Once a user is assigned a per app license, that particular user can access 2 apps and 1 portal. A single user can be assigned multiple per app licenses as well
Each license is an annual commitment. However, you might be able to reassign licenses to other users per standard agreement terms

While investigation the impact of the license model changes on existing PowerApps apps, does anyone know if the request limits are grandfathered too on Azure SQL Databases for 5 years, or are they enforced from october 1, 2019? Does anyone know this? I have not found any info on this.

I wonder if the "full capabilities of PowerApps" includes the AI Builder.

The API limits didn't apply previously.  They are different than the Flow request limits.  Flow request limits are per flow in a month.  Api limits are per API call daily.  So they will not be grandfathered in.  But 95% of users never approach those limits based on MS telemetry.  So I wouldn't worry about it.

AI Builder has a different consumption based pricing model. Its part of the standard model, but there are additional costs involved in using it that are based on actual consumption.

Hi @Pstork1 Smiley Happy We have one (!) PowerApps app here that results in 1400 (on average) SQL requests per questionnaire. That is very close to 2000 (because of Office license with Azure SQL Database), meaning someone can only add one questionnaire per day and there is not a lot of room for other apps. So I do worry Smiley Surprised

 

It is this number of requests (if you are wondering) because we decided not to make one table with many columns (because there are almost 1000 questions divided over 59 scenarios) but to have two tables where one table is the master table (one row per questionnaire) and the other table contains one row per question per questionnaire.

Since my somewhat detailed post, which was an on-topic reaction to this announcement that contained no profanity or other community-guidelines violations that I could tell, appears to have been deleted without any explanation.  Could someone from Microsoft or a moderator of this community please explain to me the opinion of these changes I'm allowed to have?

 

EDIT (Original Post, however I did remove the part where I called the move a bait-and-switch, stated that Microsoft should be ashamed, and compared their 5-year grace period to adding sugar to poison, just in case those statements crossed a line):  

<vent>

Microsoft should recognize the damage this move has done to their brand. They have been selling us on this idea of "low-code-no-code" and then pulled the carpet out from under their customers by jacking up the price to an unreasonable degree. They have taken what was a platform full of promise and potential and turned it into a cash grab. It doesn't matter which team this decision comes from, at the end of the day, it is coming from Microsoft. If they don't have the ability to oversee and to make sure their teams are working together and not hurting each other's customers, then they have bigger problems than PowerApps users having access to AzureSQL. The Powerapps-AzureSQL scenario being "too good to be true" and in need of adjustment is just giving them too much benefit of the doubt.  I'm paying for PowerApps, I'm paying for AzureSQL, both products are within the Microsoft ecosystem, why in the world do I then need to pay a third time to connect them? And why does connecting the products cost 3x as much as the individual products themselves?

 

But this decision doesn't just damage Microsoft's brand and the trust they'd built with us.  With this decision, Microsoft has injured my own brand and credibility with my company.  I've spent the past year learning, developing, and selling my company on the idea of the Power Platform and to embrace the tools that we are paying for with our Office 365 and Azure licenses. My company has invested in my time and paid for training on the Power Platform, gaining me skills that I now won't be able to utilize. I have to go back to them and explain that our new processes involving the Power Platform are only a stopgap, because in 5 years the cost of continuing to use them will explode exponentially. 

 

We can't just go back to using Sharepoint as our data source, it is too insecure.  And the cost of the new licensing model is quite frankly out of our reach.  We aren't a large company.  The potential savings from continuing to use the Power Platform to streamline our processes doesn't come close to covering this new cost of the product.  There is no scenario where we can afford this.

 

</vent>

 

What could they have done instead?

  1. Implement the new plans, but leave the AzureSQL and AzureBlobStorage connectors as Standard instead of Premium.  We're already paying for those products, the ability to use PowerApps to connect to them shouldn't need covered by a third fee.
  2. Make Premium connectors ala carte/Pay as you go. Let me pay a reasonable fee to add a premium connector to my tenant.  I don't need ALL the premium connectors.  I don't need MOST of the premium connectors.  I really only need one or two. In our current setup, there are apps that we could benefit from, but I haven't built because the connector needed for it is premium, and the cost to get access to that single connector is too high, because I have to buy access to ALL the connectors to get it.
  3. Have a much cheaper license for App/Flow USERs, similar to the cheaper F1 license for O365. I don't need everyone in my tenant to have the ability to make apps. I could see paying a higher fee for Maker/Admin licenses and having a minimal, F1-style fee for User licenses.
  4. Make the Per-App license just that, a license Per-App, not Per-App-Per-User.  

I am pressing on with my PowerApps development for the time being, with the hopes that Microsoft course-corrects on this.  I know there is more to the new licenses than just the AzureSQL and Blob Storage connectors, but from my perspective, making those connectors Premium is what places the new licenses out of my reach.

 

I've contemplated just building a bunch of blank template PowerApps/Flows and adding these connectors to them, for future development after the Oct 1 mark, but I feel like this would be cheating the system, and I'd rather not treat Microsoft the way they are treating us. 

hey @AngryBatVoice ,

I get your point (I'm more or less in the same situation, with similar consequences), but I really do think that, despite all, it IS really a matter of perspective and markets. The dynamics team that 40$/month is quite cheap compare to where they are coming from. We, from the Azure or Office world feel... differently! ^^

Personally, I couldn't really care less about CDS (no offense) and that really shows the divide between the two realities. If, through licensing, the Power Plateform team is not willing to accomotade the SQL-based reality (which to me adresses a whole different, non-canibalizing market), then its a real shame... but we'll have to accept it (aka : leave, for most of us).

On another note, I thought you made some interesting comments on your ideas of what could be done.

  • Solution 1 : to me this is cool, but somewhat useless if it doesn't come with either the HTTP response or a way to get data from PROCs with the regular SQL connector. I just need procs for any serious SQL work...
  • Solution 2 : interesting... if compatible with the seeded (O365) PowerApp licences. Most of my apps would buy SQL, HTTP and Az Blob.
  • Solution 3 : would love that, but I doubt it'll go in this direction considering how Power BI handles things. And the Power BI Premium-like option with its 4K$/month entry point would just not solving the problem.
  • Solution 4 : also interesting !

And my personal fav : a price per daily login (ideally around 1$), more akin to the pay-as-you-go on Azure.

The beauty with these is that the could work WITH the existing new plans (not against them). Much easier to communicate.

For the guys that were around back then, Power BI also had a bit of an identity crisis with its licensing scheme during its initial release. First part of Excel, when the service (v1) was initially launched, it had a efty 40$/month price points for the full platform access. The results were disapointing to say the least. When v2 was relauched later, the new price point of 10$/month allowed the product to completly explode and become the success it is today, generating much more total revenu than v1 (yay for pricing elasticity). Hopefully, this lesson is being discussed internally as well... Smiley Very Happy

For the record...

  • I'm don't work for Microsoft
  • I'm not a Moderator on the forum
  • I didn't report the original post or delete it

Not sure what happened to the original post. I never saw it so I don't know why it was deleted.

 

I don't disagree with some of your points and I've registered my concern that this is a very bad PR move with Microsoft directly.

As a 20+ year champion of most Microsoft causes I can clearly state that this is the type of maneuver that winds up looking like Windows Phone.  While the Power Platform has a ton of promise it is still not fully mature and asking this much for a service that is still growing is truly unfortunate.  The value of having a relatively low cost platform that promotes sales of other profit centers such as O365, SharePoint, Dynamics and Azure services was brilliant.  This new concept that the Power platform IS the profit center rather than increasing sales in the other profit centers is a bad miscalculation and if it sticks will absolutely kill this platform.

 

My company has already spoken on the matter and will likely have to divest ourselves of the platform which we were in the process of ramping up on.  This decisions single handidly eliminated the growth of the platform which will kill off our Azure and O365 usage as well.  The words from our leadership's mouth is what you will hear across the world "Not gonna happen".

 

I am not against Microsoft trying to make money on the Power platform and hope they do.  However, going from O365 licenses covering end-user usage of the system to everybody pays $40/app/user/month is ridiculous.  Microsoft really needs to reconsider this.  In the meantime, development in the platform will cease in a few weeks while we search for alternatives.

Disappointing.

 

I am still trying to get all the facts so I can give my customers proper advice.

I have one app in pilot-stage for the moment. It connects to Azure SQL. How many API-calls would be measured in the following cases:

- I use Filter() on the Items property in a gallery. The database-table holds 2000 rows, but through the filter i request 100 rows

- I use Patch() to update five columns for one item (row) i the database-table.

- I use Filter() on the Items property in a gallery. The database-table holds 2000 rows, but through the filter i request 500 rows. The filter statement is fully delegated. The end user scrolls down 10 times in the gallery to see all the rows.

 

It would be quite handy to be able to see the API-calls for each PowerApp in the Analytics view. Do anyone know if that is possible?

 

/Magnus

I cannot agree more.  Its not enough to have us all using O365, Windows Desktop & Azure SQL Server.  Now they want more money to be able to collaborate and automate using the tools we are already paying for.

 

I agree, I feel like the past 2 years developing apps in PowerApps has been a total waste of time.  All our apps rely on SQL Server and this will just kill it.  There is no way we can afford an additional $40 per user per month on top of the $20 per user for O365 and $10 per user for PowerBI.

 

 

I agree its tough at this point to calculate API calls based on actions.  But in general what you describe is probably one API call each.  Batching things will cut down on the number of API calls.

This new license change is confusing to me. We have one canvas app on a customer tenant that utilizes CDS. The app consumers/users have an E5 license, so there is no extra cost associated with using the app besides the E5 license. How will this change on October 1?

According to the documentation, if using CDS, every user must have a minimum of PowerApps per app plan:

 

PowerApps per app plan which allows individual users to run applications (2 apps and a single portal) for a specific business scenario based on the full capabilities of PowerApps for $10/user/app/month. This plan provides an easy way for customers to get started with the platform before broader scale adoption.

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/power-platform/admin/powerapps-flow-licensing-faq

 

The E5 license won't suffice

@Eickhel@Pstork1 

Wow. This is horrible. How to explain this increased cost to the customer? With the E5 licenses our customer could consume the app with no additional cost until now. And now they have to pay an additional $120 per user per year? And without no prior notice?

 

Edit:

The existing P1 and P2 plans for PowerApps and Microsoft Flow will be transitioning to the new PowerApps per app and per user plans, as well as the Microsoft Flow per user and per Microsoft Flow plans.

 

E5 licenses have P1 ... does that not mean that they already have a "PowerApps per app" plan?

One Correction.  Office 365 E5 licenses contain the standard PowerApps license, not the P1 license.  The P1 license is going away Oct 1, unless you are grandfathered in for a year.  Choices in the future will be the "seeded" license included with E5, PerApp license at $10/user/app/month, or standalone $40/per user per month.

 

And I agree that a lot of customers are going to have sticker shock.  But to be clear.  You can continue to use PowerApps and Flow to enhance SharePoint and OneDrive without additional cost. Developing using SQL and Azure, which I do like a lot, is what will get massively more expensive for Office users.

For us this is going to most likely pull the plug on all PowerApps development. 

 

We don't want to silo data into sharepoint lists but cannot justify the cost for 1500 staff members to access apps connected to SQL.

 

Really quite outrageous, we will be forced to use a competitor product.

 

Such a shame, Microsoft, please rethink this.

I agree with the sentiment.  My only advice would be to make sure to price out the thrid party options before you pull the plug.  Most of the people I know who work with them suggest that the cost is comparable to the new pricing in PowerApps and Flow.  That's one of the reasons MS thinks they can get away with this.

Convinced organization that Power Platform was way to go....check.

Spent year+ ramping up skills .... check.

Developed 20 plus business applictions now in use throughout organization....check.
Have many other apps in the pipeline....check.

 

Won't be able to take budget hit...check.

Earlier today I spoke to our MS reps about this, trying to get some clarity.    They did their best to explain but were noticably subdued.  You can tell that they were like "Even I can't believe this".  

 

 

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