Licensing madness/scaling

[JohnP]

Hi,

The PowerApps licensing changes that happened on october 1st is just madness unless you are MS and want to cash in on the short term. I'm baffled why there is not more outrage by these changes! All connectors (outside O365) are now premium and you need to pay for users wanting to access your already paid SQL Azure databases. MS buried the constructive critisism on this forum by restructuring the forum/bury the main thread here:

https://powerusers.microsoft.com/t5/News-Announcements-Formerly/New-PowerApps-and-Flow-Licensing-com...

This thread is almost impossible to find unless you participated in the thread and/or subscribed to it in the first place. There is still some activity, but not nearly as much as it should. I see almost no critisism on the forums now? Why? As of today there has been NO OFFICIAL response to all the well founded critisism in the mentioned forum thread.

As for our company we are leaving PowerApps behind ... not one of our customers is paying 1 million USD a year for a simple app that could be served by another service for 1000 USD.

[Pstork1]

Although I am also not happy about the licensing changes let me clarify a few mis-statements.

1) There are quite a few non-O365 connectors that are still Standard.  The only connectors that changed to Premium are SQL and Azure.  I understand that they are the most needed and popular, but not all non-O365 connectors went to Premium

2) The restructuring of these Forums has been underway for a long time.  Well before the licensing changes were announced. And they were not undertaken to bury any posts. They were taken to restructure the forums to match the changing product feature set and make it easier for people to find things.

3) I'm the one who started the thread in the first place.  And it was started in the top level primary forum for announcements. It was moved where all the announcements were moved.

4) I think the reason you don't see criticism of the licensing changes anymore because they are a "done deal". I don't like them either, but complaining about them now will not get them rolled back.  User's who don't like them will need to look for alternatives as you are doing.

[JohnP]

@Pstork1 

I appreciate your reply and your initial forum post - you have a balanced view.

Nothing is a done deal!!! If everyone just rolls over and accept the new licensing we're all screwed.

There needs to be an open debate on this topic which let MS know what the developers think. In this general forum which have the most traffic is the perfect place to do it. If everyone or most developers oppose maybe MS will consider changing their licensing? Who knows? In the end I think money talks - if business drops they will surely listen.

There is NO logic in charging for the SQL Azure connector. We already pay for PowerApps, O365 and Azure and MS wants to charge for ACCESSING what we already pay for?

[Pstork1]

I basically agree with all those points and many people have made those arguments to Microsoft. There is no hint of a move to change the licensing anymore than it has been.  The 5 year grandfathering of existing SQL apps was probably the best that we could hope to get from MS.  Feel free to keep trying to have the discussion here, but I think most people are resigned to the change and have moved on.

[JohnP]

Yes, many have moved on to other platforms or are in the process of doing so (like us).

I was an early champion of PowerApps, but now I just want to find something else. I feel sick of the MS promise and betrayal (CDS is free of charge for canvas users ... not anymore LOL).

PowerApps is perfect for smaller projects with a limited amount of users, but if you want to scale up in the 100s or 1000s - forget it.

And again ... I challenge MS to answer why we have to pay for access to Azure SQL?

[Pstork1]

Again, a correction.  CDS was never free for canvas apps.  It has always been a premium feature.  Putting SQL on a Parr with CDS is one of the stated reasons for changing SQL to premium. Again, I don't like it but that is the stated reason.

[JohnP]

"Again, a correction.  CDS was never free for canvas apps.  It has always been a premium feature."

I'm sorry but that is a flat out lie! During last year and this year more and more features/enablers have moved to the premium tier - including CDS for canvas apps. Just google and look at the history. We've been there and suffered the consequences. Many hits on MS sites (and others) describing how to connect to CDS with canvas apps - no mention of this being a premium feature then/now or in the future.

It was free until october 1st this year!

We had a workshop with top level MS people in june this year (2019) and they recommended we move from SP to CDS on our canvas apps. Well, thank you very much!!! We now know why MS recommended it ... so that they could charge us after october 1st.

Edit: I can sort of understand that CDS is a premium connector (despite MS telling it wasn't) , but Azure SQL being one is just crazy since you're already paying for Azure services and O365. Pure greed!

[Pstork1]

Sorry John but you are wrong.  CDS based apps have always required at least a P1 license to consume and a P2 license to create.  They were never included in the standard Office license. For reference you can take a look at this article, which is now out of date:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powerapps/maker/common-data-service/data-platform-entity-licenses

"App makers can use most of the entities available within Common Data Service (including custom entities and entities that are part of the Common Data Model) to create apps and flows for users who have a Power Apps Plan 1 or Power Automate Plan 1 license." (my added emphasis). Other more complex applications require a Plan 2 license. And yes, Microsoft was recommending in the past year that people move to CDS.  They still are recommending that.  But it was never included in the Office 365 license. If someone from Microsoft told you that CDS was included in the Office 365 Power Apps license they were either mistaken or you misheard them. 

You are correct however that some other features have been made premium in the last year, most importantly HTTP calls and the ON-premises gateway.

[JohnP]

The O365 E5 license definitely included the capability to run canvas apps that had CDS connectivity. I believe the E3 license also did. Most larger enterprises use these licenses and they are hurt the most by the license changes; we had customers that were impacted by this. They have since gone elsewhere.

[Pstork1]

See if you can find a link to some written documentation that says that.  You won't find any.  I've provided a link and quote from such documentation that says a P1 was required.  I can provide more.  Its simply not true and there is no evidence that you could legally run a CDS canvas app using just the Office 365 E3 licensing. I understand that in your opinion it was.  But I've shown you written proof that it wasn't.  Before continuing this discussion I suggest you look for some proof that you are right.  You won't find it.  By way of more proof here's a Blog article about the release of CDS for Canvas apps in early 2018.  You will note that it talks about the need for a P1 or P2 license.

https://survivingcrm.com/2018/05/exploring-cds-for-apps-platform-licensing/